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Post by John A. Casler on May 18, 2007 13:06:45 GMT -8
I have an article in the post from the US entitled "Fiber-specific, that's what your training should be for maximum results" by Dr Laich (1989). Extracts: The variables involved in creating these fiber-specific programs include those already familiar to experienced bodybuilders: 1) Amount of weight used 2) Number of reps 3) Number of sets 4) Amount of test between sets and one that too many bodybuilders are not sufficiently aware of: 5) Speed and explosiveness of repetitions To illustrate how differentia! speeds of movement stimulate different responses, here's an example. Two groups of athletes do squats five times a week, with one group doing heavy squat movements slowly, at a rate of something like 30 degrees per second, while the other group performs the lift with a lower weight and more rapidly, at closer to 100 degrees per second. Both groups are elite athletes, with a good development of both white and red fiber to begin with. At the end of three months of this kind of training, you'd see selective hypertrophy of the white, fast-twitch fiber in the group performing the squats quickly. In the group doing the movement slowly, you'd see the opposite the red fiber hypertrophied. In explosive movements, speed is necessary, but not enough. Accelerating the weight upward as fast as possible, right from the first instant of the concentric part of the movement, vastly increases the amount of power generated. Along the same lines, a particular bodybuilder might have a preponderance of white fiber in some muscles but a greater proportion of red fiber in others. Ideally, a good portion of his white fiber training should therefore consist of heavy, explosive movements, with lots of rest between sets. But if he trains his red fibers the same way, he'll be stimulating growth predominantly in the relatively sparse white fiber rather than the abundant red fiber population. For his red-fiber bodyparts, he'd do better to reir more on heavy sets done one after another with a minimum rest, forcing the aerobically talented red fiber to do most of the work. A lot of bodybuilders don't make this kind of adjustment. If one bodypart responds particularly when, the tendency is to train an the other bodyparts the same way. Which, as we can see, mar be a very big mistake. There isn't any quick and simple way to determine what kind of muscle fiber predominates in your physique or each of your bodyparts, short of undergoing multiple muscle biopsies and complex histochemiéal studies. In practical terms, bodybuilders should begin by doing a total program that includes all these types of training and establish via trial and error… Hi Jamie, I used to feel that fiber type training would also be beneficial, and spent some time, working on rep schematics to determine typing. In fact part of that experimentation is what led me here. But this type of training hits "all fiber types", due to the higher reps, brutal accellerative forces, and large weightloads. Problems solved. ROGUE HIT does it all.
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Post by killroy70 on May 21, 2007 6:21:41 GMT -8
Today's chest/back workout:
A1) Bench press
150x27* 175x12 (same) 200x3 (down 1 rep)
A2) Nuetral grip pulldowns
150x27* 190x13* 220x6 (*same)
Notes:
-First set of bench press felt great, had 30 reps in my sight, but died out at 27. And, as has been the case, for whatever reason the next 2 sets were, well, pretty much the same as the last few weeks. As I stated last week, I'm not going to get frustrated, I"m just going to keep pounding away - I figure once my first set is 170x30, I HAVE to get 175 for more than 12 reps!! I know this is more of a fatigue issue, as prior to starting the program I was performing 205-210 for 8 sets of 3 reps with 1 minute rest intervals. So, I figure as long as I keep hammering away and increasing that first set, the next 2 are BOUND to follow.
-Pulldowns felt very good. and John, I know what you're saying about staying tight, rock solid with every rep, as I'm finding that my calves, and especially hamstrings, are sore as hell after my bench/pulldown workouts.
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Post by carruthersjam on May 21, 2007 11:02:12 GMT -8
In Westside Louie calls it "speed" day. It is also used in Plyo type training where lighter loads (many times just bodyweight) are used to stimulate explosive actions. So no, this system when used as I intend it, will not convert the oxidative or contractile qualities of the fibers. Hi John Would you also advocate the use of bands and chains in this type of training similar to Westside (dynamic method)? Thanks Jamie PS Good work Ken again!
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Post by John A. Casler on May 21, 2007 11:58:55 GMT -8
Ken,
Looking at your bench numbers and something seems a little out of kilter.
My first impression, is that you are not resting till full recovery between sets.
The puzzling area is that you seem to do well with the 30 rep set, but it looks like you "tire" or lose ground as you go up.
My other thought is that maybe you are being too strict. Not that you want to "launch and catch", but the idea of that first set, is to cause forces to occur due to acceleration effort, and decelleration that actually exceed (slightly) those experienced with the heaviest load during the transition.
And I assume you are attacking each set, as if it were a competition, and your goal is the PR.
I also noticed you were focused on (or felt you had) 30 reps from 26. However the goal should have been 27 or 28. Too much progress on one set, can challenge the focus in the other sets.
Not that I want you to back off, or slack off, but at this stage of the game, I can't see 3-4 rep gains. They should always be 1 or at the most if feeling on top of the world, 2.
1-2 should prime the pump, for equalling or surpassing the next set, which is the only goal.
The fact that your 200# set is still below PR also leads me to beleive you might be starting the set while still in metabolic recovery.
I also don't think the lightbulb, has gone off on the benches yet. I don't think you have "tapped" into the right pressing position and maybe grip.
I would make sure I was not going "too wide". I would think that 22"-24" might be about right. How wide is your dipping grip? Maybe about that plus an inch or so.
Also, the bar should not be resting on the calluses (area of the first finger joint, it should be more towards the heel of the hand. I use a fingerless grip to support this.
However if you are not used to a fingerless grip, move with caution until you are completely comfortable.
Hopefully your bench is low enough that you can get a really good high chest/and back arch, when your feet are on the floor.
This will place you in a position more similar to the dip or maybe like a slight decline.
As a matter of fact, just think of the DIP as you press the weight. Depressing and adducting the scapula will also stretch the triceps stabilize the shoulder, by compressing the Acromioclavicular joint (ACJ) and this will allow all the muscle to "NOT" be inhibited.
Do not press too high at the top of each rep, since it causes the scapula to relax and open you to shoulder injuries, as well as make the shoulder unstable.
So do not worry about the last 25% (or even 1/3) of the pressing action.
So chest high, slightly wider than shoulder grip, scapula adducted, put triceps in like dip lockout power mode, and allow the weight to decend, under eccentric tension, with the intent to harvest the force of the load as you begin to slow it, by making the muscles and skeleton into an elastic spring.
While the load is large, the eccentric tesnioning will become concentric accelleration after the bar is stopped by the chest.
Now here is another "tweak" to your routine for benches, and it also works for dips.
You need about 4-5 T-shirts, or sweat shirts that are at least 1 size too small for you. Long sleeved is best, but T-shirts will do.
Next time you do benches, put on at least 3-4 of these "way to tight" shirts. The should be so tight that they feel a little restrictive of your movement.
These will do a few things:
1) The will protect your shoulders from injury during decellerations 2) It will give you a greater sense of the muscle when it pumps up, and that will make you feel stronger 3) They will pad your chest a bit to reduce any hesitation you have about the bar causing pain (does not mean to drop it on your chest, but you do want it to hit the chest) 4) It will act like compression clothing and help move blood through the area 5) It will keep the area warm 6) The restriction of movement will also add to the amount of weight you can use, much like a very weak "bench shirt", and this will help you move out of mental weight blocks.
On your pulldowns, also make sure that you can get a complete "stretch" without the weight stack hitting the bottom.
You need to develop "grip it and rip it" strength that takes place even before you elbows begin to bend.
It is a very strong, but unconditioned and strengthened area in most, and to use huge weights, you need to learn how to start each rep by activating that and then pulling the rest of the rep as normal.
It helps to finish each set, by letting the weight pull as you have straight arms and feel the tension in the lats, as the stretch.
Regarding the T-shirt thing. They must be "real" tight, not just a little snug (unless you use 10 of them) If you train in a public gym and don't want anyone to see, simply put a large sweatshirt over top.
You may be very impressed with the result. ;D
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Post by John A. Casler on May 21, 2007 12:11:31 GMT -8
In Westside Louie calls it "speed" day. It is also used in Plyo type training where lighter loads (many times just bodyweight) are used to stimulate explosive actions. So no, this system when used as I intend it, will not convert the oxidative or contractile qualities of the fibers. Hi John Would you also advocate the use of bands and chains in this type of training similar to Westside (dynamic method)? Thanks Jamie PS Good work Ken again! Hi Jaime, I do use "bands" (actually bungees) for several of my workouts, but more than that I have some very specific training systems, that rely on Bungees implemented with load to create several desired benefits. My TRI-VECTOR system is based on that implementation.
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Post by killroy70 on May 22, 2007 6:47:07 GMT -8
John, this coming bench workout i'll implement your suggestions. I imagine ill probably see some immediate results from switching to a fingerless grip. The bar has been resting on the calloused part of my fingers, which I can definitely see as a problem. When dipping, its the heel of my palm that's taking all the weight. I imagine I'll feel a lot more stable using this grip. I'll write more later-writing from my PDA, kind of tough! Oh, and I'm going to buy a pack of medium t-shirts, curious to see how benching will feel wearing really tight shirts.
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Post by John A. Casler on May 22, 2007 7:43:00 GMT -8
John, this coming bench workout i'll implement your suggestions. I imagine ill probably see some immediate results from switching to a fingerless grip. The bar has been resting on the calloused part of my fingers, which I can definitely see as a problem. When dipping, its the heel of my palm that's taking all the weight. I imagine I'll feel a lot more stable using this grip. I'll write more later-writing from my PDA, kind of tough! Oh, and I'm going to buy a pack of medium t-shirts, curious to see how benching will feel wearing really tight shirts. Hi Ken, Remember long sleeved T's are best if you can find them, but if not the short sleeved will serve the purpose for the shoulder. If "short T's", I would still like to protect the elbow, you might try some "homemade" elbow protectors. Take a few old "tube socks" and cut off the foot portion, so that you have about 7"-8" of the top (stretchy) portion. Take 2-3 of them, and place them inside each other, and slide them up your forearm untill they cover the elbow. These will keep the elbow warm, and also support the elbow from injury. If they are so snug that they seem to restrict blood flow, simply slide them down to your wrists between sets, but it is good for them to be rather tight during the exercise.
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Post by killroy70 on May 23, 2007 15:36:13 GMT -8
Today's leg workout
A1) Squat
195x30* 225x15* 255x5
A2) Reverse loaded squat
185x27* 195x16* 200x10
Notes:
Once again, squats went very well today. Each week I've been surprised that I've reached my 30 rep goal on that first set, and once again, today, despite the brutal nature of this set, I finished strong. AND, as with last week, my second set of squats felt very good. Oddly enough, I've found my form has improved over the course of the last 2-3 weeks despite increases in weight used. If you told me 6 weeks ago, when I started out squatting 135x30, that I'd be squatting 195x30 solid reps, I'd think you were crazy.
I will say, with this workout philosophy, one really has to "gear up" for every set of every workout. Walking into every workout, I've got a "healthy fear" of progress stalling, which makes me work that much harder.
Also, I'm wondering if maybe I feel stronger and more solid squatting since I ditched the belt. I've always squatted using a belt, and when I began this program the weights felt heavier, but as I've moved along, pushing up every rep, I'm finding that certain weak points, especially in the reversal position, have gotten much stronger. Previously, even with a belt, sometimes I'd find myself fatigueing quickly in the low back area, which became the weak link in the chain. Now, when I'm fatigueing at the end of my sets of squats, I'm finding that it's more of a whole body - from my calves to my upper back - fatigueing, which actually feels GREAT.
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Post by carruthersjam on May 24, 2007 11:51:32 GMT -8
Hi Jaime, I do use "bands" (actually bungees) for several of my workouts, but more than that I have some very specific training systems, that rely on Bungees implemented with load to create several desired benefits. My TRI-VECTOR system is based on that implementation. Hi John Are these supplementary workouts to the Rogue HIT programme? What's their major function e.g., prehab, flexibility, enjoyment, "sport specific" enhancement? Thanks Jamie
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Post by John A. Casler on May 24, 2007 13:04:24 GMT -8
Today's leg workout A1) Squat 195x30* 225x15* 255x5 A2) Reverse loaded squat 185x27* 195x16* 200x10 All good numbers and you seem to be doing quite well in the Reverse Loaded Squat (even though I assume you are not focusing on it with the same intensity) It is interesting to note that even though it is a new exercise, you reverse in relatively high numbers. This is likely also why your back is feeling more capable. Notes: Once again, squats went very well today. Each week I've been surprised that I've reached my 30 rep goal on that first set, and once again, today, despite the brutal nature of this set, I finished strong. AND, as with last week, my second set of squats felt very good. Oddly enough, I've found my form has improved over the course of the last 2-3 weeks despite increases in weight used. If you told me 6 weeks ago, when I started out squatting 135x30, that I'd be squatting 195x30 solid reps, I'd think you were crazy. Just wait, when your squatting 300 x 20, you may have to pinch yourself. You are now starting to "get" the feeling of the "continuum". There is eo much "untapped strength" that lies dormant, because we can't make progress with the big weights. The slightly lighter loads let us "ratchet" our way to far greater gains. The scary thing however is that you find an uncanny ability of "HIGH REPS" with what you previously considered heavy weights. This is TRUE POWER. And while HIT devotees THINK, they train with intensity, THIS begins to show you what INTENSITY really is. And the absolutley "heady" thing, is, even after you did your 30th rep, I bet you felt you might have been good for another rep or two. I will say, with this workout philosophy, one really has to "gear up" for every set of every workout. Walking into every workout, I've got a "healthy fear" of progress stalling, which makes me work that much harder. Motivation is the great barrier or carrier. That is why I tell people that this "IS NOT" the program of the month. This is "balls to the wall" serious training, and has the potential to extract your best condition ever. I find it exhillerating to enter each session knowing that I will be perfroming sets that represent the best numbers I have ever posted in my life, in not just one, but several sets of various loads and power outputs. Just to explore my limits, and those who train with me, was/is most exciting. Is it tough? Hell yes. Can I do it? As long as I have the desire to. Also, I'm wondering if maybe I feel stronger and more solid squatting since I ditched the belt. I've always squatted using a belt, and when I began this program the weights felt heavier, but as I've moved along, pushing up every rep, I'm finding that certain weak points, especially in the reversal position, have gotten much stronger. Previously, even with a belt, sometimes I'd find myself fatigueing quickly in the low back area, which became the weak link in the chain. Now, when I'm fatigueing at the end of my sets of squats, I'm finding that it's more of a whole body - from my calves to my upper back - fatigueing, which actually feels GREAT. The TSM functions best if it also has significant endurance. This program causes that type of adaptation. Additionally training without the belt, strengthens the systems that the belt formerly supported. If you added a belt now, you would be even more capable during strength tests, but you wouldn't want to train with one. When I critique HIT, it is not the "concept" I critique, it is the mutation that has evolved of the system, by many of the HIT Gurus. It seems a strange dichotomy, that they preach "intensity" while looking for ways to actually "reduce" intensity, but make the perception of intensity still exist. Like Super Slow, certainly feels hard, but it lowers true intensity.
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Post by John A. Casler on May 24, 2007 13:33:17 GMT -8
Hi Jaime, I do use "bands" (actually bungees) for several of my workouts, but more than that I have some very specific training systems, that rely on Bungees implemented with load to create several desired benefits. My TRI-VECTOR system is based on that implementation. Hi John Are these supplementary workouts to the Rogue HIT programme? What's their major function e.g., prehab, flexibility, enjoyment, "sport specific" enhancement? Thanks Jamie Hi Jamie, I implement elastic or spring devices in many programs and applications. In ROGUE HIT, you begin to develop such impressive RFD (rate of force development) abilities, that you can cause quite large weights to reach "terminal velocity" (that speed where you cannot apply accellerate the load any more) quite quickly. Ideally, we might find that adding a force (elastic) that increases when terminal velocity is reached will allow you to continue to apply force without the speed being so great as to limit the reformation of cross bridge connections. Also using two load types, with these qualities, creates a braking force to high speed reps, to allow them to be safely performed for reps. So for example, I attach one end of my bungee cords to my bottom of my lat machine's frame, and attach the other end to the top of the weight stack. I do this so that when I have pulled the bar to my chin, the bungee is fully stretched. This then allows me to pull the weight as fast and as hard as I wish, and not have to worry if the weight stack is moving too fast, and deloading. So if I might gloat a bit; When I quote that I did pulldowns with 330 x 30 reps, It was actually 330# worth of weight plates, and probably another 30-50# added at the top end from the bungees But I have hundreds of exercises, that benefit from the combo, such as the lying triceps press. Just imagine adding two bungees to this exercise from two places in space, so that the weight load provided the intial load, but as the bar reached the top of the head one bungee began to add force, and as the bar was over your face you had another add force, so you have great load almost to the decline press postion!!!!! If you were able to follow my description, and try it, your triceps will never be the same ;D
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Post by killroy70 on May 25, 2007 5:09:50 GMT -8
Today's arm workout:
Dips
BW+10x28* BW+60x13* BW+92.5x5 (same - again, very close to that 6th rep. next week) REVERSE grip dips (finisher) BWx18
BB curl
85x30* 97.5x13* 112.5x5 (same)
DB upright row 60x10, 8 DB overhead Tri extension 60x10
A whole bunch of PR's today. John, I took your advice in that on my first set of dips, if I made a herculean effort and gave everything I had, I "may" have been able to get that 29th rep. However, I PR'd, beat last week's effort by 1 rep, so I bagged that set to leave a bit extra for the next 2.
Also, as my "finisher" dips exercise, I simply turned around in my dip station, and because the handle bars are angled, it gave the movement a different feeling. To be honest, dipping in that fashion forces the elbows inward (because the reverse hand placement has the hand-grip facing outward) and it REALLY hit my tri's. Really liked the feel of this. Actually, this type of dipping may have been a better choice for "arms" day, as it seemed to put much more stress on my tri's and took some off of the chest and shoulders. However, I'm going to stick to the standard dip until progress ceases, as I feel like I can ultimately handle more weight, at least at this stage in the game.
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Post by John A. Casler on May 25, 2007 11:45:29 GMT -8
Today's arm workout: Dips BW+10x28* BW+60x13* BW+92.5x5 (same - again, very close to that 6th rep. next week) REVERSE grip dips (finisher) BWx18 The 6th rep is yours, with 4 explosive, then 1, and then 1 more. Also, the tight T-shirt attire will also boost confidence in this one. Another thing I found that helps, is after the heavy set, drop to 50# or 60#, and do "DEAD STOP" reps. That is, drop from the top, to the bottom, and STOP DEAD, and explode your self up (but smoothly). Be carefull "NOT TO RELAX" at the bottom, but keep the tension and just stop. Then throw your head back and DRIVE to the top, and focus on feeling your strength and quality power. In fact, strangely enough back when I had a dipping station, I was many times did a dead stop on the last rep of every set, just to prove to myself I had more in the tank. A whole bunch of PR's today. John, I took your advice in that on my first set of dips, if I made a herculean effort and gave everything I had, I "may" have been able to get that 29th rep. However, I PR'd, beat last week's effort by 1 rep, so I bagged that set to leave a bit extra for the next 2. While this is against the "failure" ideas of some, I am looking for small regualr results over a long period. Ramping up to large weights and stalling is not my idea of a good program. Almost everyone who focuses on this program has been able to make slow and steady progress for 6-9 months, and attain previously unimagined results. It challenges the theories of "overtraining", and "CNS fatigue". But opens up ones awarness of their "Strength/Power Endurance Continuum".
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Post by killroy70 on May 28, 2007 4:31:45 GMT -8
today's chest/back workout:
A1) Bench press
150x28* 175x12 (same) 200x3 (same)
A2) Nuetral grip pulldowns
150x28* 190x14* 220x7*
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Post by killroy70 on May 28, 2007 5:32:33 GMT -8
Notes for today's workout:
-Bench press. I purchased a couple sized medium t-shirts, but they weren't nearly tight enough to have an effect - even though a Large fits snuggly, the mediums were tight, but not REAL tight. Let me say, my form was tight, my back arched, scapula pulled together tight, bar on the heels of my palms, and .....crap. Now, my first set of 150x28 was a PR, felt very good, and as with dips, I MIGHT have had a 29th rep in me, but I set a PR and wanted to be prepared for the next 2 sets. 175 felt light starting out-I repped to 10 quickly, but failed on my 13th rep. Again, just died out at the end. And just for the hell of it, I timed my rest period - I wanted a solid 5 minutes from my first set of pulldowns before that second set of bench. This exercise is and always has been my nemesis! I'm quite flustered. I even dropped the accessory chest exercises with the hope that I'd be able to bump my bench up a bit.
-pulldowns felt very good. PR'd on every set. I wedged myself into the pulldown machine, tightened up my body from my calves all the way to my forearms, and ripped the weight. You told me a while back to concentrate on feeling my elbows and lats pulling the weight, not my upper arms, and that really helped today. I'm excited that I'll be finishing next week's workout with 5 "plates" on the pulldown machine. Hoping to rip that 225 for 6+ reps.
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