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Post by killroy70 on May 4, 2007 7:08:52 GMT -8
Quick note - I bought a new dip stand. the one I was using was a parallel grip dip station, whereas this one has angled bars - which I prefer because it allows me to use a closer grip and hit my triceps more. It definitely had a different feel to it, felt better, but with the closer grip, my tri's were on fire during my sets.
Today's arm workout:
A1) Dips
BW+10x24 BW+55x14 BW+90x6*
A2) BB curl
80x30* 95x14 112.5x5*
B1) overhead DB tri extenstion 25x10,10 B2) DB upright row 52.5x10,10 B3) EZ reverse curl 65x8
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Post by killroy70 on May 4, 2007 7:09:56 GMT -8
Oh - and just as a "finisher" at the end of my workout, I performed a last set of dips at BW+22 reps
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Post by John A. Casler on May 4, 2007 13:05:11 GMT -8
This is a great feeling. To have been beaten and whipped in the previous workout, only to increase the poundages on 2 out of 3 sets and beat my previous rep count on the other set. This is what I'm looking for. That is what it is all about. You hit those sets like a freight train, and then rest that exercise for a whole week. At your age, with your hormones, and paying close attention to your diet like you posted, all you need is plenty of sleep and a PMA (Positive Mental Attitude) and it is basically a Math Project. And John - I'm glad my "frustration" makes you smile! ;D Actually, the frustration simply stems from the workout "not feeling right," as explained above. In the bench press, when I've been coming to that second and 3rd set, the weights have felt heavy - I felt unprepared, and don't want to halt my progress. Yes, the weight never will feel light, but they do have to make it feel like you want them to, and can do them. So "light and DOABLE" is what you want. Secrets to making the weight feel light and doable: I make it look heavier than it is. I place small 2.5# or 5#plates in between the 45#s which just makes it look larger. This makes me "mentally" approach it differently, with a little more "fire". But I also "disregard" those little weights, I call them "washers", and view the weight as if they weren't there. So maybe it is 230#, but I can't see the "2.5# washers" so I intend to handle the weight as if it were 225#. It is kinda like these women who think that calories from food they eat off someone elses plate don't count. (maybe the male version) ;D But the more important element of making a weight feel light is how you attack it when you pick it up. If you are on the bench, RIPPPPP that weight off the rack and attack it. Do not lift it slowly off the rack or it will feel like a ton. Same for most every weight you use. If you are in the squat rack, place that bar firmly on your shoulders and ram it off the rack like you might even jump with it. They just start feeling light, when you move them fast, and attack them. Also if the racks are adjustable to height, always use the highest height so you don't have to push the weight too far. I know you have already "mentally" envisioned yourself moving this load at the speed and reps needed for the goal. And one last thing. Stay SOLID and TIGHT through every rep. Each and every stabilizer, when activated maximally, will potentiate your primary movers (and that makes the weight feel light). If you relax at any time during your set, the weight will become immovable. If you become a piece of granite or steel, heavy weights just move like magic. Even gripping tightly can make a big difference. Instability will kill you strength. (glad you got a more stable dipping stand) And looking below to your squat workout, that is another thing that will make weights "feel" lighter. When you get used to "using" heavy loads in squats, and deads, and such, then they become less intimidating. Ok, today's leg workout: A1) Squats 165x30* 210x15* 255x6* That 210 x 15 is really a good set!!! with 5# jumps a week, you'll be at 225 x 15 in less than a month. Just imagine what it will be like when you get to 315 x 15. Don't doubt it, since it can happen if you want it. Notes: -again, my labored breathing seems to be the most limiting factor. When nearing the end of my 30 rep set and 15 rep set, I'm finding that it's tough as hell to grind out those reps, but those last few are still popping up nice and strong. The great thing about those sets is that very seldom can you state that you couldn't have done at least 1 more rep. d**n things are "supposed to be HARD". That is why you will go beyond where most stop. They simply say the reps are too hard. Of course they are and that is why they work. All this silly TUT and TUL from the "normal" HIT crowd....They have no idea what TUT and TUL are until they try this. Should be PUT and PUL (Pain under Tension/Load) If you can really call it pain. It is just really "extreme discomfort" and it is what you want, because it contributes to progress. I kept the weight the same on the last set and did one more rep than last week. John, as you stated, I don't want my lower back/torso to be the limiting factor here, and I can feel my lower back fatigueing quicker than my legs. So, I think next week's workout will look like this: 175x20 215x15 255x6+ (goal is 8 "solid" reps) Looks good, but realize that what you are doing in the 175 x 20 set is "upping" the weight, and reducing the reps. Now what will that yield? You were concerned about "fatigue" in your back, so how do you deal with that problem? Actually the idea would more likely be "try to fatigue it MORE". That would condition it more for fatigue. Adding too much load to soon can allow for a faster road to higher weights, but be concerned of that "Back Conditioning" you need. The low back "does" fatigue, and needs a LOT of conditioning. So you do the math. If you do raise the weight to 175#, I would be shooting for 25 reps, and you might flip out and get 30!!! And after doing each set, make sure and "rest" as much as you need to. Get your cardio from the in between days if you need it, but you need to be completely recovered, mentally ready, fully focused on the goal, know your rep counting ladder, to get you to those target reps, and grab that freakin weight so it knows you are gonna "grip and rip" till the number is reached. :weights:
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Post by killroy70 on May 4, 2007 14:25:20 GMT -8
John -- 175x20 was a typo!!
Yes, next wednesday I WILL be performing 175x30 reps. thirty. 165 was uncomfortable and a tough set to finish, but as I stated in that post, the last few reps STILL popped up very strong.
Although no major progress was achieved today in dips, my grip is now substantially closer (now that I have "angled" dipping bars) and hit my tri's much more. Perhaps since I took some stress off my pecs with this closer grip my bench might benefit more come chest day. All day today - even nearly 10 hours after my workout, my tri's still feel tight, it's a good feeling, like they were really thoroughly worked.
I will say, though, that the 90x6 last set of dips felt great, very solid. It took all I had to get that last rep up, but looking a few weeks ahead, 100+ lbs for 6-8 reps is going to feel incredible.
Strength gains/goals aside, I feel like I should have taken some "before pics," somthing which I have never done before - but I'm seeing some real hypertrophy, especially in my arms.
Can't wait for monday....feel like I'm going into battle each and every workout...
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Post by carruthersjam on May 6, 2007 2:00:44 GMT -8
Slight off topic - John do you feel that this type of protocol would have positively or negatively affected your throwing performance. It has been suggested that high repetition training can cause fast to slow fibre conversion over a protacted period of time. In bodybuilders it is common to find no type IIx and an increase in slow fiber. Max strength training also causes a shift from fast to slow at a lower rate, but you can reap the rewards during lower volume/intensity training periods.
Thanks
Jamie
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Post by John A. Casler on May 6, 2007 7:54:40 GMT -8
Slight off topic - John do you feel that this type of protocol would have positively or negatively affected your throwing performance. It has been suggested that high repetition training can cause fast to slow fibre conversion over a protacted period of time. In bodybuilders it is common to find no type IIx and an increase in slow fiber. Max strength training also causes a shift from fast to slow at a lower rate, but you can reap the rewards during lower volume/intensity training periods. Thanks Jamie Hi Jamie, Good question, and the difficult thing for some to see in the system is that it "IS NOT" a high rep system as most perceive them. In fact it does just the opposite. It makes "slow fiber" more explosive, rather than fast fiber "oxidative". This is because your "lighter" loads (and I only use the term "lighter" in a realtive sense) are used in a way that makes their stimulus that of "high load", because of the speed of that movement requiring large efforst to acceleration, and decelleration. In fact this very element of "load/force" control and conversion is what causes the higher rep sets to have such a DIRECT affect on the larger load sets. The Intramuscualr Tensions, and Motor Impulses, at some points in the repetitions, are actually equal to or larger, than with the greater load sets. In Westside Louie calls it "speed" day. It is also used in Plyo type training where lighter loads (many times just bodyweight) are used to stimulate explosive actions. So no, this system when used as I intend it, will not convert the oxidative or contractile qualities of the fibers.
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Post by cookie on May 7, 2007 3:47:58 GMT -8
Hi John
I've been reading this thread and am considering trying this as I find the theory behind it to be very interesting.
A couple of questions for you:
I note that the routine is based over a repeater of one week. Do you consider this to be optimal or is the recovery based around the "convenience" of a 7 day period.
I note that you advocate the use of only one exercise per body part (although some seem to have added a secondary movement). Would you rotate exercises from workout to workout to provide the necessary variation.
Can reasonable results still be obtained on a calorie deficit diet (I am carrying too much fat around the waist at present and would therefore plan to combine this with HIIT type aerobic work 3-4 days per week.
Would you recommend any HIIT work to be done on days off, immediately following the workout, or on the morning of the workout.
Thanks Cookie
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Post by killroy70 on May 7, 2007 4:51:50 GMT -8
Today's chest/back workout:
A1) Bench press
145x27 175x12 200x3
A2) Neutral grip pulldowns
145x28* 185x14* 220x6*
B1) incline DB combo fly-press
47.5x8
B2) Straight arm lat pushdown
85x8
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Post by carruthersjam on May 8, 2007 9:12:46 GMT -8
Today's chest/back workout: A1) Bench press 145x27 175x12 200x3 I'm certain you should have awarded yourself a * on the first set?
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Post by John A. Casler on May 8, 2007 10:16:08 GMT -8
Hi John I've been reading this thread and am considering trying this as I find the theory behind it to be very interesting. A couple of questions for you: I note that the routine is based over a repeater of one week. Do you consider this to be optimal or is the recovery based around the "convenience" of a 7 day period. I note that you advocate the use of only one exercise per body part (although some seem to have added a secondary movement). Would you rotate exercises from workout to workout to provide the necessary variation. Can reasonable results still be obtained on a calorie deficit diet (I am carrying too much fat around the waist at present and would therefore plan to combine this with HIIT type aerobic work 3-4 days per week. Would you recommend any HIIT work to be done on days off, immediately following the workout, or on the morning of the workout. Thanks Cookie Hi Cookie, Welcome aboard. The system, as I used it, was two upper body a week and one lower. This was generally set up as" Mon = Chest and Back Wed = Legs and Torso Fri = Arms and Shoulder This gives the max rest recovery to the upper body of 3 days, and 7 days for the lower body. Recovery however, is not a static or set element, and is contingent on your age, hormonal profile, genetic traits, dient, and rest/sleep patterns. I am sure that at 58, (10 years later) I would be hard pressed to match that schedule, and you need to "learn" your bodies capabilities in this area. I advocate one "main" complex/compound action per body area that "has the potential" of allowing significant progress. For example side dumbbell laterals might not be a good choice, where "seated" presses may be. But it is dependant on your goals. Any and all other exercises can be undetaken as "pumpers" of fillers, as you feel the need, but it is imperative that they DO NOT interfere, in any way with the KEY exercises, in any way. The exercises "should not" be rotated, as is the fashion now days. The idea is to attempt to take each action and the perfroming musclulature far closer to your potential than ever before. I would suggest that calorie deficiency would reduce potential, and this is not desinged to be a weight loss system, but by increasing ones muscle mass, and associated metabolic processes, bodyfat to lean muscle ratios will become more favorable, and fat loss will be easier later. I would suggest that one simple rule would cause a reduction in BF. Don't eat withing 2-3 hours of going to bed. I found no problem using HIIT (stair climbing) on T-TH-Sat, but this may not hold true for everyone, again dependant on your recupertive power, and care to the recuperative elements mentioned above. NEVER do HIIT on the same day!!!! This is a serious program and any and ALL physical and mental resources must be focused on the equal or betterment of each set every workout. The key however is "small" steps, to make each attainable, yet productive. If you start a program, please post it in a "new thread" so we can all see how you have set it up and I can help guide you a bit.
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Post by John A. Casler on May 8, 2007 10:22:57 GMT -8
Today's chest/back workout: A1) Bench press 145x27 175x12 200x3 I'm certain you should have awarded yourself a * on the first set? Yes, those are starting to look good. Make sure and "manhandle" that 145#. Meaning move it as fast as possible with control. The first set is the "key" to all progress. And always be on the "look out" for new records (PR's) That is, "ANY" number of reps, with "ANY" specific weight load, that you have never done before is a NEW RECORD. Record it and Celebrate it, for it will contribute to your goal. As well, as mentioned earlier, you will have a "combined" record. That is, even if you only set "one" record, and match the other two, you have set TWO records. 1) for that PR set, and 2) the total PR of the three together. Both of those records are significant.
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Post by killroy70 on May 8, 2007 17:08:02 GMT -8
Jamie -you are correct, that 145x27 was a PR. should have put an * by it. I'm waiting for set 2 and 3 to catch up. I'm just going to keep at it. If sets 2 and 3 refuse to cooperate, I'm just going to end up surpassing those weights with set 1! -I've been really "attacking" every set, though perhaps that first set gets a little extra kick being that I'm fresh. I actually "enjoy" that first set. Squat day tomorrow, looking for more PR's... Ken
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Post by John A. Casler on May 8, 2007 17:18:43 GMT -8
Jamie -you are correct, that 145x27 was a PR. should have put an * by it. I'm waiting for set 2 and 3 to catch up. I'm just going to keep at it. If sets 2 and 3 refuse to cooperate, I'm just going to end up surpassing those weights with set 1! Ken Ken, That is really how this system works. The first set sets the pace of progress. Remember, I didn't start where you did. I stated with a 15RM and just kept increasing the reps. and those sets bore heavier sets of lower reps above them. So don't go over 30 reps, but just keep pushing that weight up in set number one. It is the primer to the strength gains, and the gains come easier in that set since the steps (increases) are easier to make. You can always get one more rep in that first set, and ultimatly that leads to increases in the succeeding sets. Unless you don't rest enough in between, or lower your mental drive, it has to.
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Post by killroy70 on May 9, 2007 15:05:56 GMT -8
Today's leg workout:
A1) Squats 175x30* 215x15* 260x 1 (aborted this set due to a "twinge" in my lower back. The weight felt good - I upped the poundage 5 lbs this week because 175 and 215 felt very solid. This was a "live to fight another day" type thing. I've had lower back issues with the back squat in the past and didn't want to impede my progress.)
A2) Reverse loaded squats
185x26* 195x18* 205x10*
Notes:
-other than the back problem in my last set of squats, today was a good workout. It's funny, sometimes that first set really does become a mind game! I'm finding that sometimes I go into the set with a strategy in mind, perhaps wanting to "race" through the first 15, grind out 8 more, then a "set" of 4, then 3.. Today, when I unracked 175, it felt light on my back, so I "raced" to 20, struggled through 6 more, gathered myself, and finished off with 2 "sets" of 2 reps. Bumping sets 1 and 2 up to 185 and 220 next week, respectively.
already thinking about dips and curls coming up this friday...
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Post by John A. Casler on May 10, 2007 9:24:13 GMT -8
Today's leg workout: A1) Squats 175x30* 215x15* 260x 1 (aborted this set due to a "twinge" in my lower back. The weight felt good - I upped the poundage 5 lbs this week because 175 and 215 felt very solid. This was a "live to fight another day" type thing. I've had lower back issues with the back squat in the past and didn't want to impede my progress.) It is VERY smart to back off, and give it another week, when you feel a twinge. I hope you are doing your squats in a power rack for safety. Hints: Place the bar as low on your shoulders as you comfortably can. Keep your head up at all times keep your Lower Back slightly arched all times when your knees are bent or bending. Keep your Butt Out. Pull slightly "down" on the bar with your arms, which tensions the lats, which stabilizes the lumbar spine Take a good breath before each squat rep and create good ITP and IAP. Don't exhale untill 1/2 of the way up. Keep abs tightened/tensioned as if someone was throwing a bowling ball into your stomach. This is especially important at the transition at the bottom from eccentric to concentric. Notes: -other than the back problem in my last set of squats, today was a good workout. It's funny, sometimes that first set really does become a mind game! I'm finding that sometimes I go into the set with a strategy in mind, perhaps wanting to "race" through the first 15, grind out 8 more, then a "set" of 4, then 3.. Today, when I unracked 175, it felt light on my back, so I "raced" to 20, struggled through 6 more, gathered myself, and finished off with 2 "sets" of 2 reps. Bumping sets 1 and 2 up to 185 and 220 next week, respectively. already thinking about dips and curls coming up this friday... I think your getting it, in that the first sets will take you to the final and heavier sets. Don't focus on the heavy set, as it is a "RESULT" of the preceding sets. The final heavy set is simply to "harvest" what you accomplished on the first sets, and insure that you will be stronger, for your first sets on the next WO a week from now. Looking for some great first sets on those dips. But again, make the progress slow and continuos. We are looking to allow the body to adapt to this level of intensity. I think you are now starting to see why I call this "ROGUE" HIT, since this is intensity beyond a single set. It is also "REAL" instensity since total "power output" is HUGE. I think you will be surprised just how far this can take you. "NO LIMITS"
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