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Post by John A. Casler on May 29, 2007 11:42:29 GMT -8
Notes for today's workout: -Bench press. I purchased a couple sized medium t-shirts, but they weren't nearly tight enough to have an effect - even though a Large fits snuggly, the mediums were tight, but not REAL tight. Let me say, my form was tight, my back arched, scapula pulled together tight, bar on the heels of my palms, and .....crap. Now, my first set of 150x28 was a PR, felt very good, and as with dips, I MIGHT have had a 29th rep in me, but I set a PR and wanted to be prepared for the next 2 sets. 175 felt light starting out-I repped to 10 quickly, but failed on my 13th rep. Again, just died out at the end. And just for the hell of it, I timed my rest period - I wanted a solid 5 minutes from my first set of pulldowns before that second set of bench. This exercise is and always has been my nemesis! I'm quite flustered. I even dropped the accessory chest exercises with the hope that I'd be able to bump my bench up a bit. -pulldowns felt very good. PR'd on every set. I wedged myself into the pulldown machine, tightened up my body from my calves all the way to my forearms, and ripped the weight. You told me a while back to concentrate on feeling my elbows and lats pulling the weight, not my upper arms, and that really helped today. I'm excited that I'll be finishing next week's workout with 5 "plates" on the pulldown machine. Hoping to rip that 225 for 6+ reps. I think your a "puller" and not a "pusher" ;D I am too. My upper body "pushing" actions are not as comfortable, stable or impressive to me, as my pulling. Your Pulldowns rock!! Until you get some "small" T-shirts, try wearing a couple (2-3) of your regular T's with the Mediums over them. Also since they are short sleeved, you might want to try the "tube sock" elbow saver for your dips and benches. Sooner or later most all heavy benchers, dippers, and pressers start to feel the elbows. It is better to nip it in the bud. When we use such large forces, we need to learn how to best manage them without injury.
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Post by killroy70 on May 30, 2007 16:04:53 GMT -8
HA!!
Maybe I am a "puller." Come to think of it, I've always been very good at weighted chins. I could always deadlift much more than I could squat. Hmmm.... seeing a pattern here.
You know, though, I think one problem may be that I'm undereating, especially in the carbohydrate department. My pre-during-post workout nutrition is spot on, but I think, perhaps, I might be undereating throughout the rest of the day. That might explain why I'm petering out in the second and third sets of some exercises when the first set goes so well. I'm going to ramp up calories and carbohydrates over the next few days to see if there's a positive effect. Fat be d**ned!! I actually got to thinking about this after today's squat workout. Here it is:
A1) Squat
205x30* 230x15* 260x -
A2) Reverse squat
185x27* 200x18*
Notes:
-I went after that first set of squats like a madman. Really, around rep 8 I thought there is NO WAY I'm getting to 30. And then I just kept banging out the reps. AND, as you stated a few posts ago, when I hit rep #30, I probably could have done a few more. The next set at 230 was tough, but I got 15 deep, solid reps in good form. And after that set, my legs were shaking and I had to sit down. I NEVER sit down between sets, I like to pace to keep the blood flowing and to stay loose, but I could barely stand. I mean, rep #15 at 230 went up well, but when I racked that weight, I had nothing left. Around 8 minutes later (after my A2 reverse squat set) I attempted 260, looking for 5+ reps. I unracked the weight, it felt ridiculously heavy, considering it was only 30 lbs heavier than the set I just nailed 15 reps in, and I lowered the weight, tried to reverse, and just lowered it to the rack supports.
-I seriously doubt I'm encountering any "overtraining" symptoms, as all of my "first sets" have been outstanding (for me). I started out squatting 135 for 30 reps, and at first that took the life out of me. A month and a half later, I'm up to 205 for 30 with better form.
So that's where I'm at right now. I'm going to bump up cals and carb consumption and see if that helps my endurance in the latter sets. I mean, in the bench for example, how could I bang out 28 good reps at 150, take adequate rest, and only eek out 12 reps with 175?? That just doesnt' make sense to me. Tomorrow, I'm going to eat big, and let's see if I can plow through that BW+92.5x5 set of dips I've been stuck at for 2 weeks.....
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Post by John A. Casler on May 31, 2007 10:16:49 GMT -8
Hi Ken,
Yes, it is hard to grow and become stronger without a positive calorie balance. By all means, eat enough to make sure you have all the nutrients to grow, or else the stimulus is lost.
If there are not enough calories or nutrients at all times during training and recovery, then you lose much, if not most of the benefit of the stimulus.
Plus muscle and weight gain, add to additional progress (bigger muscles lift more weight)
I think your 260# squat was more of a "mental" thing than physical. Rest assured there were times when I jumped under 400+ to find it feeling like a ton. It takes incredible confidence, and motivation to rip the larger weights off the rack and allow yourself to begin the journey through the set.
But....strangely enough, I always found the "inital reps" the most intimidating. After feeling the power and ease of driving the load back up, the reps actually became progressively easier!!!
In squats, I am also somewhat of a ROGUE, in that I have no problems with allowing my torso to lean forward. I find that if I maintain the tight lumbar curve, and keep the bar well back on my shoulders, that allowing that lean is "beneficial" to involving the "hips and upper thigh".
That is, I think too many make a big deal about keeping the spine vertical. and this makes the squat a "courtsy" and is terrible biomechanically, as well as limiting.
My Squat and deadlift torso postitions are almost identical, in fact I have many times super-setted the two, and feel the groove is pretty much exact. (actually, I tri-setted by adding in the reverse loaded squat)
Not sure why you are getting leg shakes at this point in the game. Are you getting good pre-workout nutrition? Or are you eating too much before (to conflict the blood supply?)
The only time I have felt that "shakes" is if I have a layoff and start back in.
Your 135 x 30 to 205 x 30 is indicative of developing those abilities that most never realize exist.
Those are Great numbers and show me that you have a lot more room to improve.
As I have said, this is an "exploration" of your potential. Many who have this idea that a single set to failure is the "maximum" stimulus have doomed themselves to a specific level of that potential.
Additional stimulus will cause a "DIRECT COMPENSATION" to that stimulus.
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Post by killroy70 on Jun 1, 2007 4:44:31 GMT -8
That last set may have been a mental thing. And what you described - that in certain sets the initial reps are the most difficult - I've found that to be very true in my second squat set. It's like I gave everything I had performing 205x30. And when I unracked 230, I just thought to myself, "just make this first rep a good one, and the rest will follow..." So, I went after that first rep like I was performing a 1RM, and when it popped up, I knew I had the set nailed.
On to today's arm workout:
A1) Dips
BW+10x28*(same as last week) BW+60x13*(same) BW+92.5x6**** Reverse grip dips BWx21
A2) BB curl
87.5x28* 97.5x14* 112.5x5
DB upright row 60x10,10 Overhead DB tri ext 60x12
Notes:
-although the first 2 sets of dips I simply met last week's numbers - they were better sets. What I mean is, last week, when I hit rep 28 on set 1 and rep 13 on set 2, I had NOTHING left. I basically locked out those reps and dropped off the dips stand. Today, I hit rep 28 and failed on my 29th attempt in set 1, and pretty much the same for set 2 - I hit rep 13, and nearly pushed out that 14th rep. However, on set 3, I BEAT last week's effort hitting my 6th rep with 92.5. And I hit it solid, no falling off the stand gasping for air.
Time to eat...
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Post by John A. Casler on Jun 2, 2007 7:53:49 GMT -8
OK, Ken now for the BombShell.
Now that you have been on this program for about 6 weeks and you have begun to learn your body, and how the exercises allow you to make progress, look at each of your exercises and decide if you think it would be better to perform the first set at 20 reps, or at 30reps.
The whole point of doing the 30 reps, was not to "warm up" or build endurance, but it was to explore the strength and power capabilities, you and most everyone else didn't know about.
My epiphany was reaching 30 reps with 300# in the pulldown. It was mindboggling doing 30 reps with a weight that other couldn't do for a single. It simply showed me that the body has capabilities that need exploring, if one has the "guts" to push the limits.
So consider that you can continue using 30 reps as the first set in some and 20 in other, and or any combination. The introduction of the 20 scheme, allows you to scale down to a 3 set system (20/10/5) which would likely allow heavier loads on the final set, but would also nessessitate heavier loads on the initial set.
It doesn't reduce the "challenge" it only changes it.
Also consider that while the pain is great, the 30 reps set does allow for "smaller step" progress, since it is always easier to pick up a rep or two on that set.
Be cautious on squats, but depending on your confidence with your back, you may be able to start going heavier (but do so slowly and safely)
You seemed to have recognized the abilty developed by the 30 reppers. Now you are at the point that you may find transitioning to less inital work will allow a slightly higher load on the other end.
If you do make that change, do so with a smooth transition, and don't sacrifice anything. That is, if you need the 30 repper to "prepare" the area to safely handle the higher loads, keep them. If not, it might be an experiment to try.
Also do not forget to add in the tight T-shirt and "elbow warmers" on the presses/dips/benches/elbow extension actions for protection. Even Ronnie Coleman uses them.
Regarding your "mental":
As I have posted from time to time, you MUST!!!!! be mentally prepared to pursue each set as if it is the only set you have to do and it MUST be done at all costs short of injury.
Developing that mental drive will show you that most simply let down mentally and leave a lot in the tank.
In fact as hard as I have trained in developing this routine, I always felt that I still did not ever hit the full limits of my ability. It is extremely empowering to feel this "reserve" and to acheive such limits while still maintaining it.
Your results speak for themselves.
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Post by killroy70 on Jun 4, 2007 6:22:26 GMT -8
I was at a wedding this weekend in Maryland and just read your post this morning. Quite a bombshell indeed! After reading your post, I decided to go ahead and experiment with the new rep goals. We'll see how I progress, and if after a few weeks I feel like some exercises felt better starting with the 30-rep goal, I can always switch back. So, today's chest/back workout:
A1) Bench press
160x20* (no failure) 180x10* (no failure) 200x5* (no failure)
A2) Nuetral grip pulldowns
160x20* (no failure) 200x10* (no failure) 225x7* (just couldn't help myself on this set - took it all the way)
B1) Incline DB bench press 60x10 B2) Bent DB row 70x10
Notes:
-With the new rep goals, I wasn't quite sure where to start, so I bumped up some of the weights 5-10 lbs/set and decided to stop once I met the rep goal, even if I had a bit left in the tank. Workout felt really good today. My first set of bench presses with 160 - I probably could have gotten 3-4 more reps had I taken that set to failure. The 180 lb set had a rep or two left at the end, and the with the 205 lb set, I might have gotten a 6th rep, but the 5th was pretty tough. Pulldowns felt very solid. Now, just performing 20 reps instead of 30 on that first set - one very noticeable side effect was that the pump was a bit less. After 30 reps to failure on pulldowns my arms were really swollen; today I got a good pump, but not like the 30 reppers. However, as you stated, I was able to use more weight in the next 2 sets. On my last set, when I hit my rep goal at rep 5 with 225, I just had to see if I could match last week's rep count with the additional 5 lbs, and I did, felt great.
-I'm HOPING that I'm 3-4 weeks away from hitting 175x20 in my first set of benches. 160 felt good, and I knew had I started at 165 I probably could have achieved 20 reps. Looking for 5 lb bumps the next couple of weeks, hitting 175x20 would be feel incredible. Looking forward to it...
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Post by killroy70 on Jun 6, 2007 7:36:41 GMT -8
Today's leg workout:
A1) squat
215x20* 240x10* 260x5*
A2) Reverse loaded squats
185x29* 185x21 185x17
write notes later, have to get back to work...
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Post by John A. Casler on Jun 6, 2007 11:04:42 GMT -8
I was at a wedding this weekend in Maryland and just read your post this morning. Quite a bombshell indeed! After reading your post, I decided to go ahead and experiment with the new rep goals. We'll see how I progress, and if after a few weeks I feel like some exercises felt better starting with the 30-rep goal, I can always switch back. So, today's chest/back workout: A1) Bench press 160x20* (no failure) 180x10* (no failure) 200x5* (no failure) A2) Nuetral grip pulldowns 160x20* (no failure) 200x10* (no failure) 225x7* (just couldn't help myself on this set - took it all the way) B1) Incline DB bench press 60x10 B2) Bent DB row 70x10 Notes: -With the new rep goals, I wasn't quite sure where to start, so I bumped up some of the weights 5-10 lbs/set and decided to stop once I met the rep goal, even if I had a bit left in the tank. Workout felt really good today. My first set of bench presses with 160 - I probably could have gotten 3-4 more reps had I taken that set to failure. The 180 lb set had a rep or two left at the end, and the with the 205 lb set, I might have gotten a 6th rep, but the 5th was pretty tough. Pulldowns felt very solid. Now, just performing 20 reps instead of 30 on that first set - one very noticeable side effect was that the pump was a bit less. After 30 reps to failure on pulldowns my arms were really swollen; today I got a good pump, but not like the 30 reppers. However, as you stated, I was able to use more weight in the next 2 sets. On my last set, when I hit my rep goal at rep 5 with 225, I just had to see if I could match last week's rep count with the additional 5 lbs, and I did, felt great. -I'm HOPING that I'm 3-4 weeks away from hitting 175x20 in my first set of benches. 160 felt good, and I knew had I started at 165 I probably could have achieved 20 reps. Looking for 5 lb bumps the next couple of weeks, hitting 175x20 would be feel incredible. Looking forward to it... Yes, now that you have "experienced" a 30RM set, you can begin to see the "Strength/Power Continuum" that runs from 1RM to hundreds of RepsMaximum (like the 100m sprint) It is an expression of strength and endurance translated into POWER. There are few single sets, that can provide a pump as well as a 30RM set with a truly heavy weight. The beauty of such a set is that it re-defines the Paradigm of Strength and High Reps. So many "THINK" that High Reps mean Low Weights. Yeah of you are a Wuss, but if you really want to find out what your made of, and what true INTENSITY is, work on your 30RM. That said, I found that I stayed with the 30RM on many of my pulling or curling actions. Chins, Pulldowns, Low Cable Rows, Curls, Deadlifts, Shrugs, all allowed me to reach some great loads for 30 reps. My pushing however seemed to respond with the 20RM model. Benches, Dips, Standing and Seated Presses, etc. A Program to be effective must be adaptable and flexible to the requirements and individual abilities. That however doesn't mean since you don't like 30RM (I admit the are a painful challenge) you shouldn't do them. It means that you may need to adjust from time to time to push the envelope. If you find, you feel an injury coming on, or strain in a body area, back off and return to the 30RM (or even higher = I have done 87reps in the thighs to ribs each rep-Leg Press with 920 - and to be frank, could have done more) We just couldn't get any more weight on the machine A couple other reasons to transpose the RM numbers to the "lower" range is to: 1) Reduce metabolic Fatigue 2) Enable a higher final set RM Let me assure you, you wont lose too much endurance, but due to a little less drain on the Glycogen stores, and Metabolic by-products, you may be able to cause a larger 4-6RM. Now that also accomplishes a large goal. It allows you to become "mentally familiar" with a LARGER load. Just the CNS feedback of how it feels and all will reduce some of the fear or apprehension of a heavy load. I mean you just did 20 reps with a load not too much lighter, this actually should be easy!!! And with lower reps, you get the chance to focus totally on moving a large load, and not have to use a large "Staging rep" period to just get to the target. When you start, the target is only a few reps away, not a couple 10 rep stages.
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Post by John A. Casler on Jun 6, 2007 11:16:43 GMT -8
Today's leg workout: A1) squat 215x20* 240x10* 260x5* A2) Reverse loaded squats 185x29* 185x21 185x17 write notes later, have to get back to work... I mean one has only to look at the Squat Sets, and see we have 3 PR's in one workout. Guess what? You will see that, or close to that every squat session for at least the next 4-6 months. I hope you are eating enough to grow. And another point about heavy squats. After you have done rep squats heavy, the "NUMBERS" don't seem to have a scary meaning anymore. 300, 400, even 500, and 600, are simply numbers and once you have used them to squat with, it is just as easy to load the bar for benches or rows, or whatever, and think nothing of it. Eat, Sleep and WO. If you do them all well, your body will reward you with gains (and a few pains), but if you skimp on one of them, it will slow the gains. Try and keep a postive nitrogen balance in the blood all day long. Sleep as long as you can each night, and if you need to catch a 30min to 1 hr nap when you feel tired. Training is the Stimulus Rest and Sleep is for Growth and Adaptation Nutrition is the Raw Material to build the MOECHINE
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Post by killroy70 on Jun 8, 2007 8:02:35 GMT -8
Right now I'm using the 20/10/5 set rep scheme on all exercises except for reverse loaded squats. And I must say, I actually DO like the 30 rep sets - yes, they are painful, and with squats, when working with my 30RM, it sometimes feels like self-inflicted torture. ;D
However, I do want to see if I can push/pull some bigger weights in that last set. I am eating more. My caloric intake was plenty adequate at the beginning of this program - HOWEVER - as I've made strength gains and the workouts got harder and harder, I never adjusted upwards. So, I'm making a concious effort now to get in more calories.
Today's arms workout:
A1) Dips
BW+25x20* BW+70x10* BW+95x4* (almost had that 5th rep) Reverse grip dips BWx22*
A2) BB curls
95x20* 105x10* 115x5* hammer curl 25x25 (no failure, just for pump)
B1) DB upright row 62.5x10, 8 B2) Overhead DB tri ext 62.5x10
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Post by carruthersjam on Jun 9, 2007 7:34:47 GMT -8
Also do not forget to add in the tight T-shirt and "elbow warmers" on the presses/dips/benches/elbow extension actions for protection. Even Ronnie Coleman uses them. I have found that compression garments / wraps also help to increase one's awareness of tension changes in muscle complex and also enhance the "mind-muscle" connection.
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Post by John A. Casler on Jun 9, 2007 8:04:57 GMT -8
Also do not forget to add in the tight T-shirt and "elbow warmers" on the presses/dips/benches/elbow extension actions for protection. Even Ronnie Coleman uses them. I have found that compression garments / wraps also help to increase one's awareness of tension changes in muscle complex and also enhance the "mind-muscle" connection. Yes, you gotta love that "feel". Maybe it is just me, but it makes me feel BIG and Powerful!! And the compression/restriction actually does add a few pounds to your lifts (Just squat in a tight pair of jeans sometime and see your squat jump 25# or more) And the compression, especially when you are pumped makes you feel HUGE. It led me to formulate a few ideas about OCCLUSION "restricted blood flow" training and how restricting the blood flow "OUT" of a body area might trick the body into thinking it had been worked harder, and what might result if the body part was: 1) pumped longer 2) Subjected to metabolites longer 3) trained under blood flow restrictions Have not had a chance to test this out, but it seems to make a bit of sense. Probably not for Strength Gains, but possibly for support tissues in Hyper trophic Gains.
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Post by John A. Casler on Jun 9, 2007 8:21:08 GMT -8
Ken,
You are looking good. So now that you have at least 6 weeks under your belt and you can use your new flexibility to structure your rep/schedule, keep in mind you can also do a 4 set group of 30/15/8/4 or similar.
And speaking of "lower reps" we certainly don't want to forget the "Lower Rep Maxes" either.
In fact, feel free to "once a month" or every other session, perform a lower rep max if you feel strong.
That is a RM single, or double, or triple. The value of this is that you need to eventually lose the fear/apprehension of the heavy stuff, and you need to become accustomed to the "feel" of that load in you hands or on your shoulders.
I really only practiced this in my pressing actions and squats/deads, but if something else leaps out at you go for it.
This is now moving into the area of a full Strength/Hypertrophy program.
Your initial sessions were to actually condition you and allow you to become familiar with the Rep Ranges Rep Maxes, you had not used before.
Adding in the Lower Rep Maxes, then completes the picture, but now you have greater awayness of you complete capabilities.
Now keep in mind 30/15/8/2 will not yield you "BEST 2RM" because of the fiber retirement of the sets beforehand, but it will still allow a substantial % of it to be used.
This may (should) allow you to use some of the previous RM's since you certainly have built additional strength, you just now might want to explore it.
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Post by John A. Casler on Jun 9, 2007 9:31:58 GMT -8
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Post by killroy70 on Jun 11, 2007 8:16:47 GMT -8
Today's chest/back workout:
A1) Bench press
165x20* 185x10* 205x4
A2) Nuetral grip pulldowns
170x20* 205x10* 235x5*
B1) Incline DB press 62.5x10, 10 B2) DB row 75x10,10
(write notes later)
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